If Verona falls will Oakmont fall as well?
With the escalating crime rate in Verona, will it soon affect Oakmont? Are we headed down a path in which both boroughs will be lost? Is Verona doing enough -- or is it too late? I'd like to hear your thoughts.
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Well, in order to make a reasonable comment on this topic, I had to get the research first.
Pulled from the US Department of Justice at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_08_pa.html:
Verona, population 2,985 (These are 2006 numbers):
Violent Crime – 10 (5 Robbery and 5 Aggravated Assault)
Property Crime – 112
Burglary – 16
Larceny/Theft – 85
Motor Vehicle Theft – 11
The rest of the categories such as Murder, Rape and Arson had zeros.
Oakmont (pop. 6,685) was not listed on the same US Dept of Justice report so I had to go elsewhere…
This is from http://www.disastercenter.com/pennsylv/crime/10620.htm 2005 numbers:
Violent Crime – 13 (1 Rape, 1 Robbery, and 11 Aggravated Assaults)
Property Crime – 146
Burglary – 16
Larceny/Theft – 118
Motor Vehicle Theft – 12
There was a zero in the Murder category.
So what can we surmise from this data? It seems like it would need a closer look at the crime per capita or whatever that measure is. Since Oakmont is a little more than twice the size of Verona, and in general, it doesn’t have double the numbers in the above categories, I would say that Oakmont might be a little lighter on the crime side than Verona. However, I wouldn’t comfortably say that Oakmont doesn’t have any crime at all.
Obviously there are some issues that Verona needs to address, such as vacant properties, absentee landlords and the cost and condition of housing. As housing prices decrease, more crime can be expected. If a landlord doesn’t care about the property or tenants that are in it, then how can we expect anything to get better?
With respect to your direct question, I think if Oakmont continues to maintain a certain pride in the community, properties and let their expectations be known, then you might be OK. Keep in mind too that some of the time, (I don’t have specific stats on this one), the criminals are not from that community. For example, Verona tends to have individuals from Penn Hill come in and commit various crimes. Believe me, I’m not saying that’s always the case, but I think that’s a big contributor.
Is Verona doing enough? I don’t know the answer to that. Can you really ever do enough though when it comes to taking pride in your community and protecting those in it?
Yes! We can have a thoughtful discussion on this website. I knew these questions would get you back (newtoverona). I'm glad! Also, it is good to get "pavement's" young view. Hope more people get involved. The questions stem from a conversation I had with a Police Officer in the twinboros. I think there is a trickle-down effect. Meaning, landlords don't take care of property, renters follow suit causing low level renters that bring an negative element to the communiity. This leads to lower property values, higher crime rates, and increased problems in the school district. I also read an article rating "the top 10 communities to live in" in Pittsburgh. I was shocked that Oakmont had the highest crime rate of the 10 listed.
fdg
newtoverona, i completely agree with you. vacant properties, and careless landlords are a big problem. but i also think the community really underestimates the effect drugs have on oakmont and verona. i would never state a name, but i know over twenty heroin addicts in oakmont alone. i dont think its the addicts causing as much crime as the dealers. and for physical assaults, well it would help if there wasnt a bar on every corner! thank you for the stats, i found that interesting
I don't know how, but I forgot about the role that drugs play in all of this. The USDOJ has some interesting info on that as well...
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/dcf/duc.htm
Just done with the other conversation. That sounds like an interesting article. Do you remember where you read that article. I would like to check it out.
Dear tred
I know you think I am a joke, but what escalating crime are you referring to. When you refer to crime we are talking about kids stealing bikes, shop lifting and some vandalizing.
It’s not as bad as you think. Some of the statistics are committed by the same family over and over. The Borough is in the process of trying to removing some of the offenders. One problem the judge has a final word when you’re trying to get rid of certain families that cause problems. When you look at statistics on line it does not tell you if it’s the same people committing the acts. Example one family on the hill has had 50 complains and who knows how many arrests. That makes us look bad.
I can tell you something I am just a little concerned about my kids associating with the wrong kids in Oakmont. After all they have the money to buy the drugs, not the kids from Verona. You heard that kid from Oakmont He or she said I know 20 kids in Oakmont alone with a heroin addiction. Wow, that is unbelievable. Hey (pavement) how many kids in Verona with that problem do you know.
What answer do you have to that (Oakmont) tred?
COUNCIL
Council,
Now that is fantastic info. As a resident just reading the AL, you don't always get that detailed info. I have read numerous reports in the crime log regarding the same streets in Verona (especially Union). My questions are not a knock on Verona. Have you found that these problem families are renters? My theory is that renters don't have the commitment or pride in a community that ownership brings. I also agree that the judge can effect change or, as in many cases, dismiss charges. Is anything being done on that front? Perhaps my concerns reflect the changes in neighboring communities such as Penn Hills. I grew up there and would never send a child to that school district. I don't want Riverview to end up in the same situation. A place where teachers spend more time babysitting than teaching.
Question whatever happened to three strikes you're out . A friend of mine is a council member. She told me that Verona council was trying to come up with a plan of action. Implament a three stike law for nuissance renters . I think a plan like that would help the community keep the drug dealers out. How can members of the community such as myself voice my concerns . I do not want to jeapordise the safety of my family . I will say this on behalf of my best friend she does live on Union Street . She being a home owner regrets buying a home in Verona . She has expressed concern about her children being exposed to drug related items in her yard . I know her kids would like to play in the yard but unfortunatly cant . What a shame the bar on the boulevard has alot to do with whats happening on union !
niave
We finally agree on just about everything.
Verona officials are doing everything they can by LAW to keep the town trouble free. They certainly hope things will get better not worse. For example the Verona Gardens a few years back had a terrible manager. Borough Official complained enough and got that manager replaced. The borough had a meeting with the new manager and explained the situation. The Gardens have been quieter ever since.
You are correct a particular family on Union Street have been a problem. The Borough is in the process of giving the landlord the three strikes and you’re out law. But the judge can over turn this if he feels those people have the right to act up. What good is a law if a judge over turns it. Here is some sad news, their not Section 8.
Verona has tougher rules turning houses into rental units. This is the problem with all old communities. Investors buy old homes and make three units out of them turning them into section eight and they get as much as 600.00 per unit. This 100,000.00 investment gets 1,800.00 in rent, that’s good money. 18% a month is better then any bank. Trouble is the people that move in don’t give a crap about this town. Half of them don’t pay wage tax either.
I can’t bad rap Penn Hills teachers. Believe it or not Penn Hills has a better curriculum then Riverview. The only problem is a lot of their students don’t want to learn. They have a big problem with kids sneaking into the school district from other communities. Pat Authority is snitching on them riding the buses every day to school.
Well tred we can’t save the entire world tonight but a least we care.
I really could use a writing lesson. You guys write very well. I am jealous.
Tell me am I getting better?
Council user name?
Yes, your writing is improving. Just to touch on your point about Penn Hills, I commend the teachers for their efforts. My brother is one of those teachers. Your observation is correct, many students don't want to learn. I know Riverview has some of the same issues. Students not living in the district, yet attending the schools.
I have been researching the article about Oakmont's crime rate. It was a waiting room read and I don't recall the publication. I did find an article in the same vein--Pittsburgh Magazine July 2007. This article names the top 10 communities in Pittsburgh, but doesn't address the crime issue in as much detail.
Thank you for being kinder to me.
I really do have a lot of knowledge on Borough Issues; I just have the hardest time putting them into words.
Some people are better then others, and most are better then me. Any more questions tred; I like answering them. After all, you are giving me the lessons that I asked you too. This is great practice. I want you and other people to know that Officials have been trying to stop the bleeding from investors buying homes and turning them into multi units.
(newtoverona) asked the question is there any Officials here. The big question is are they?
I say yes the Officials are listening. What do you think Tred?
Council user name?
I haven't made up my mind on that front. Let's say I am a member of council. I read a blog about the boroughs-- similar to my original questions. Only four people bother to respond. Should I really care what is on this site? Now, say I own a pizza shop in the boroughs and someone asks, "What's the best pizza?". That question garnered quite a few opinions. As a shop owner, I should definitely be on this site. By the way, I like Fortino's.
I like all the Pizza Shops, except Little Cesar’s the box tasted better.
i know a handful of opiate users in verona, mainly hydro,oxycodone, morphine pills, and somehow methadone(which i thought was under extreme regulation). there is a certain problematic house on high st. in verona. i wish i would take more action and call the police, but living in this area you know everyone. these people are not my friends in any way, but i know their relatives and families. i should also go to council meetings and such, but i feel that people wouldnt care what i had to say, im not even sure if i have anything to say. also, i dont know what pharmacies are filling these prescriptions, but there has to be a red flag when your dispensing a 100 60mg morphine pills a month. any way, sorry for talking about drugs so much, its the only thing i really see everyday thats a problem. how do you people find out about council meeting, when and where are they? i could use some information on that. thanks
I assume you are referring to users, not dealers correct. There is a difference. Some one who uses drugs in their home is one thing and one who dispenses to the community is another.
Coming to Council meetings is not a good thing for drug related issues. You should contact the Chief of police and consult him anonymously. 412 828-6034 the non-emergency # never put your selves at risk at public meetings. Whenever you speak at public meetings, you have to give your name and address. NOT GOOD
Coming to Council meetings is good for information on what is going on in your town.
Meetings are the second and last Tuesday of every month at 7:00 PM in the Borough building.
Stuff like this lets us know that young people care too!
Thank you for your concerns
"Council Person" (username) it really sounds like you've changed your tune on here. Glad to see it. I think this is a very productive conversation and it really shows that our people are interested in what is happening out there.
By the way Pavement, (and everyone else), the council meeting in Verona is tonight at 7pm. I notice that it's not posted as an 'event' on here. Once again, that could be a way to get more people out to know what's going on.
"i dont know what pharmacies are filling these prescriptions, but there has to be a red flag when your dispensing a 100 60mg morphine pills a month"
The pharmacy has to fill it if it's a legal prescription. The responsibility lies with the physician who hands out the monthly scripts like candy. As long as the doctor writes it out saying they need it, the pharmacy fills it.
I know of several people in both towns who share their scripts. When one is low, they buy from the other. It's young and old people alike. When you're strapped for cash and Social Security is not cutting it, $80/pill looks pretty good. (yes, that's what some go for, depending what it is)
I don't know what doctors these people are going to, mine won't even give antibiotics unless he's positive you need them.
but a pharmacist has the right to deny anyone of any pescription. i know what your saying, but i think the pharmacist should alert police when a 30 year old man/woman keeps picking up huge amounts of oxycontin cause they have a runny nose. that example was a little much, but you know what im saying? pills do cost $80, and thats why people start using stampbags for $5.
Thank you
Where have you people been?!? Oakmont is FAILING right before our own eyes, come ON people!
Take a walk on the upper blvd. the patch of sidewalk in front of Caseys and the Laundramat. This is a simple, easy example of failing.. Anyone that "knows" Oakmont will understand this.. Look at the square built around the tree. At one time, there used to be real pretty flowers there.. Then later, someone got sick of planting the flowers.. and put wood chippies there to fill it in.. well currently, the wood chippies are sparse and the only that is truly visible are the tall weeds growing with trash scattered around.
FAILING!
Take a walk on Cedar Way. The backside of the blue building (servicemaster) look at the vandalism spraypainted right on the buildings. A disgrace.
FAILING!
While you're out and about drive through any alley in Oakmont and (not on trash night-day) take a look at all of the crap and junk and old crappy-crap that people leave in their yards.
FAILING!
This is not "Oakmont." The real "Oakmont" would not stand for this.. Thirty years ago, pick-up trucks and vehcicles that advertised for companies were not allowed to park on any streets. To some, this might seem picky, or unnecsary.. but on the whole.. Oakmont community used to be cared for and was well manicured.
When the Oakmont chief of police told a friend of mine (who walks daily in the evening) that the streets of Oakmont were no longer safe to walk at night.. This is where I draw the line people!
Everyone knows that the Giant Eagle on the Blvd. is now closed.. there have been many rumors first about a Get-Go, then some bs story about a Shop N Save.. who knows what the future will hold.. my point is that the lot of Giant Eagle is bare, and some might even call it an eyesore. Sooo many people just comment on the vacancy of the block - how odd it looks.. This is only the beginning people.. PNC is building a brand new bank next to Walgreens in Oakmont. Just what do you think is going to happen to the current location of PNC? So you think businesses and companies are just waiting in line to pay the high rent?
Antoher vacancy!!
FAILING!
Tell me people.. What do you think is going to happen to Oakmont when Target is built and open for buisness in Harmarville? Have you thought about this? Who will want to shop at Lanes Hardware? Who is going to go into any of those other clothing shops.. There goes the local jewelry shop next to Kwik Fill! Hell, the last rumor I heard was that Target was going to offer hair and nail services also! Imagine THAT people!! Hairmetrics, Lori's Hair corner, etc.. etc..
If you don't support your local stores, they will close. When the local stores in Oakmont close up for good.. you'll all cry.. You know why? Because it will be as though you are living in Verona!
Oakmont could be the next Verona.. I know, I know.. it sounds like a stretch.. But think about it.. Verona has now let Section 8 into their community. Where does Verona children (high school age) go to school? To Oakmont - Riverview HS. What do you think will happen next? I know.. More section 8 will be let into Verona, people and thier families from Penn Hills are going to move to Verona. Why? Well, they'll have section 8 and get to go to Riverview.. I predict within the next 7 to 10 years that Verona will be the next Penn Hills.
FAILING!
I also predict that within 12-17 years.. Oakmont will be the has been community.. something sad like New Ken.. or Lawrenceville..
So, I guess your answer is yes. Oakmont will fall. Since we are linked by one school district, should Oakmont take measures to help assure that Verona does not fall? Let me make a prediction--the people from Verona are going to have field day with your comments.
Where do I even begin?
Choosing to point out one specific tree area on the Blvd. is pushing it a little bit but I understand you are trying to make a point.
About the trash in any alley, don’t just drive up and down the streets looking at it. Go ahead and call the police or borough about it. There’s certainly an ordinance to support your beef about that.
Thirty years ago, vehicles that advertised for companies were few and far between. Now, it’s a way of life. Welcome to the world of marketing. I was at Heinz field recently and the crappers in the parking lot were wrapped with an ad. It’s out there. You can’t escape it…you can only hope to contain it. Size restrictions maybe? Time restrictions maybe? Let’s look at some alternatives.
If the police chief told you that it’s not safe to walk at night, should we take that as a reflection on his officers and department in general? Why don’t they walk the streets at night? Or ride a bike? Or patrol these “bad” areas that they obviously know exist. I think that was a bit of an exaggeration. There isn’t a street around the entire Pittsburgh area that I wouldn’t walk down at night, let alone Oakmont. It sounds like there are a bunch of yuppie suburbanites that can’t handle a little diversity.
With the PNC situation, are you trying to tell me that building new building, (a green one like PNC is doing), is a bad thing? I know you’re concerned about the existing PNC space, but seriously, if a company comes in and wants to build a new structure, that’s never a bad thing. I don’t see new construction going on in some other areas.
Your comments about Target are ridiculous. First of all, the traffic that is along the Hulton Bridge, Route 28 and Freeport Road is horrible. If I only need a few things, or a small specialty item, I will continue to patronize the local businesses b/c the few dollars more there, would cover the time, aggravation and gas that it would take to get to Target. Now, if I want a lot of stuff, or something that Oakmont or Verona can’t provide, I’m going to Target. Or even Pittsburgh Mills to Best Buy, WalMart, etc. I wonder if people were screaming like this when WalMart when in at Waterworks. I’m sure…especially given the demographic over there and their perceptions of WalMart customers.
“Oakmont could be the next Verona.” And what would be so bad about that? I know Oakmont has its precious little country club…oh wait, that’s not even entirely in Oakmont. I know areas like Penn Hills are perceived as “going down hill” and so on but I can’t help but get the feeling that all of Western Pennsylvania is if you listen to a posting like this.
Just out of curiosity Chica, if you had to move tomorrow, what lily wasp community would you move to? At the rate you’re figuring things out at, we would all have to move out of the state to find a “decent” neighborhood. And for the record, I would live in Lawrenceville in a heart beat.
I can't let the "Target" comments go by without a response. The person that shops at Carabella, Traditions, etc. is not going to enhance their wardrobe at Target. These same patrons are not going to Target to get their nails and hair done. Many of the shops in Oakmont (as well as Verona) are destination shops. Meaning--people come from different areas to specifically go to these shops and restaurants. That will not change when Target opens. On the bright side, by your predictions, the Hulton Bridge will fall in the next couple of years. What a boost that will be for our little communities.
This is already posted. But, I wanted you to read it. I have very strong feelings on Verona and how it will eventually affect Oakmont.
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Yes......It will happen
Submitted by BlueRaven on October 20, 2007 - 10:07am.
I predicated nineteen years ago Verona would bring Oakmont to its' knees financially, educationally and socially. The one thing that will save Oakmont is to not breakup old homes into cheap quick rent apartments. All ones has to do is look at East Liberty, Bloomfield, Lawrenceville, Garfield. The decline in housing up keep, the educational level is not what it was in the 50's & 60's.
Oakmont is a lovely sweet town still and I hope it does not change beyond what it is now. But, there are screamers out there who want in just because of who or what they are and that is not fair to those who live by the law and pay high rent to live in what suits them to feel safe!
I do agree with all you stated about the stores closing up when Target is put up in Harmarville. Target is a good store, I like it. But alot of people from other communities are going to be traveling through Oakmont just to get to it. Hopefully Target will not affect what businesses are here or have been here for a long time. The only way to keep undesirables out is sky high rent which hurts those people who deserve to be here and have been here for a long time. But, I never thought Highland Park would be infiltrated and compromised by people who snuck in byway of section 8. None of that is fair to those who worked all their lives to own homes there and raise their children there. I don't like Verona and never have.
It sounds like certain people can't take a little "diversity." I understand your points about Highland Park, East Liberty and such, but do you hear yourself? Who are the "undesirables" anyway? Can you elaborate a little more? I think we would all love to hear how you describe these people.
I'm not saying Section 8 and other similar government programs are 100% perfect and flawless. But I do know they are good to some extent and help people where they would otherwise not have the opportunity.
"I don't like Verona and never have." What the hell kind of statement is that?!?!?! Please explain, I would like to hear your reasoning behind that. Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I would definitely like to hear yours on that subject.
As a resident of Verona, I take offense to many things you say. I grew up in Verona, left for college and lived in other states before moving back. My family also grew up in Verona, My wifes family is from Oakmont. I know there are a few undesirable elements that have started to move into Verona. But there are many of the same in Oakmont as well. Its people like you and your comments that are dispicable. We need to work together as one to solve the problem. Comments like yours drive a wedge between the communities.
sieg heil chica1134!
why dont you move out of this horrible place called oakmont then. and what is wrong with lawrenceville, its a very nice place with alot of things to do. and what do you want to do about "these section 8 people"? should we spit on them, or should we hope that they just starve to death? and god forbid one of these poor kids leaks into an education system. and i feel sooooo bad these precious little oakmont kids have to go to high school with those dirty stupid verona kids.
its pathetic, sheltered, racist people like you who make me ashamed to live here.
Oh my tred what have you started. I am staying out of this one; I can here the mud hitting the side of my house now.
I have a great idea; let us get the Oakmont people to invest in Verona so they can rent to whom they want to. That will save us from the blight of unwanted investors buying up our town.
Ill sell my house, can we start the biding. Who will give me a dollar? I am putting my house on E-bay with no reserves.
Nice going Tred
Council Person (user name)
And I thought nobody cared. Little did I know that weeds, Target, and Section 8 housing would be the result of a few innocent questions. Council, who are you kidding? You can't stay out of this--it's too much fun!
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So then, other than a few zings in my previous post.. Maybe a few comments were taken as insults. (my apologies) Everyone seems to understand my words...
I just wanted my response to the question is Oakmont failing. I believe that I answered it truthfully and to the point.
"This 100,000.00 investment gets 1,800.00 in rent, that’s good money. 18% a month is better then any bank'
Actually, it's 1.8% per month and 21.6% per annum.
Hey Kid you better stop playing with that computer and get that stuff up off the floor and on thoughts shelves.
OK 1.8% ILL takes it.
"Hey Kid you better stop playing with that computer and get that stuff up off the floor and on thoughts shelves"
Speaking of computers...perhaps to you should consider purchasing a new one all rigged up with a functioning spell checker.
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you have to be the only normal person in oakmont/verona. i dont know why so many people think their superior.
Question #1
With the escalating crime rate in Oakmont, will it soon affect Verona? Are we headed down a path in which both boroughs will be lost? Is Oakmont doing enough -- or is it too late? I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Question #2
Hey there tred it's time for a new subject.
Things are getting pretty boring around here. What new zing is on your mind?
How about politics, that’s always a good subject. Tuesday November 6, is right around the corner.
State, City, County or Local
After all I am the Council Person?
user name?
You are boring us paperboy.
Council (user name), why do you keep removing and/or editing your posts? I can't help but think there's something fishy about that.
I agree, what's up with that? Why hasn't Council responded to the Paperboy accusation? He responds to everything.
He is a flim flam artist. I wouldn't waste to much time with him. He attacks you one moment and then tries to draw you back in the next minute with kind comments. I've seen the dance before and have no interest in it. I just recommend that if you are looking for intelligent communications steer clear of that guy.
The truth is that Council got caught. Ilivealone disclosed his other identity and he was called on the carpet for editing blogs. Hence, he turns the whole thing into a pity party for poor Council and says he is walking away. My guess is, "Council"/"Paperboy" will show up again. The only question that remains-- is under what user name? Bloggers beware!
This web site is not for degrading people’s lives and insulting communities, and I will not be a part of it anymore.
SOO LONG!
COUNCIL PERSON (USERNAME)
Council, I just have to say that you have dramatic swings both ways from day to day. A few weeks ago, you were attacking me and degrading the life of someone who you thought was me. Sending letters, making phone calls and so on. Now, you are feeling like you're being attacked in the same way? If in fact you are a public official, anywhere, I would have to question your integrity.
See you around...
I predicated nineteen years ago Verona would bring Oakmont to its' knees financially, educationally and socially. The one thing that will save Oakmont is to not breakup old homes into cheap quick rent apartments. All ones has to do is look at East Liberty, Bloomfield, Lawrenceville, Garfield. The decline in housing up keep, the educational level is not what it was in the 50's & 60's.
Oakmont is a lovely sweet town still and I hope it does not change beyond what it is now. But, there are screamers out there who want in just because of who or what they are and that is not fair to those who live by the law and pay high rent to live in what suits them to feel safe!
NOTHING is like it was in the 50s or 60s. That's why it's not the 50s or 60s anymore. Sure, we all long for a simpler time, (cue the slow piano music in the background), with Leave It To Beaver and Happy Days type lifestyles. Screeeech, (the record coming to an abrupt halt), it seems like you're looking for a middle and upper class white neighborhood with an elitest mentality. It sounds like there are a couple people here with that already. Seriously, if Oakmont went "downhill" and you could choose anywhere to live, all moving expenses paid, where would it be? I asked Chica the same question and unfortunately she never responded.
I would live in a place that is free from crime, hatred and bigotry. I would live in a place that had plenty of running water and fields as far as the eyes can see. A place where people help each other and don't tell there boss when one of there coworkers takes home a box of pens. A place where my beautiful lady love Solie and I could have dinner without interruption. A place where neighbors aren't so offended when I go down to get the mail in my underwear. Know where it is? Tidioute.